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Tropical vs. Subtropical

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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:55 pm

What constitutes a \"true\" tropical climate, versus a subtropical climate?

California\'s climate designation is Mediterranean. Is all this Mediterranean climate also solely Subtropical, or is there also a tropical Mediterranean climate, and a temperate Mediterranean climate, in CA?

Is it just the winter minimum temperatures that make the differences in climactic designations? :shock:

Florida\'s subtropical (or the supposedly tropical climate designation of the lower Florida Keys) is much warmer in summer than is California, so does is Florida \"more\" subtropical? Also, is there climates in Hawaii that are more subtropical than are tropical?

Mucho questions, but I always wanted to know the definitive characteristics that \"go into\" making the climactic designations.

Regards,

Paul
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MOST PEOPLE LONG FOR ANOTHER ISLAND; ONE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY WOULD RATHER BE!"  "Bali H'ai" from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific" (1948)
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby epicure3 » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:13 pm

No expert here....but I would guess that parts of SoCal would be labeled subtropical as well as Mediterranean. Tropical, I am pretty sure, is out of the question. What the definition of subtropical is, I have no idea. I believe the def. of tropical would be an area that lies below the Tropic of Cancer and above the Tropic of Capricorn. Outside of those areas, I think that people just use the terms pretty loosely to describe climate. There must subsets of tropical as well, since Cabo San Lucas lies in the tropics but is arid and dry for the most part. I think someone could rant on about this forever, but I certainly couldn\'t with the limited noggin flow I have.
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Postby Doobieous » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:26 pm

What constitutes a \\\"true\\\" tropical climate, versus a subtropical climate?  

California\'s climate designation is Mediterranean.  Is all this Mediterranean climate also solely Subtropical, or is there also a tropical Mediterranean climate, and a temperate Mediterranean climate, in CA?  

Is it just the winter minimum temperatures that make the differences in climactic designations?  :shock:  

Florida\'s subtropical (or the supposedly tropical climate designation of the lower Florida Keys) is much warmer in summer than is California, so does is Florida \\\"more\\\" subtropical?  Also, is there climates in Hawaii that are more subtropical than are tropical?

Mucho questions, but I always wanted to know the definitive characteristics that \\\"go into\\\" making the climactic designations.

Regards,  

Paul


To call any part of California\'s Mediterranean climate \"tropical\" is stretching the definition of tropical to the breaking point.:

tropical

adj 1: relating to or situated in or characteristic of the tropics (the region on either side of the equator); \"tropical islands\"; \"tropical fruit\" [syn: tropic] 2: of or relating to the tropics, or either tropic; \"tropical year\" 3: characterized by or of the nature of a trope or tropes; changed from its literal sense 4: of weather or climate; hot and humid as in the tropics; \"tropical weather\" [syn: tropic]

trop?i?cal Audio pronunciation of \"tropical\" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trp-kl)
adj.

1. Of, occurring in, or characteristic of the Tropics.
2. Hot and humid; torrid.


Now, I know, people like to change definitions to suit themselves, but really, I don\'t think you can call even the most mild corner of California tropical because it lacks constant high humidity and year round heat . California\'s medeterranean climate is just that, mediterranean, experiencing mild winters, dry, hot summers, and a wet/dry cycle.

From: http://www.mediterraneangardensociety.org

\"The region around the Mediterranean Sea has a climate of mild, rainy winters and hot, dry summers. This distinctive climate pattern is also found in four other widely separated parts of the world: California, Chile, South Africa, and Australia. Early European explorers were struck by the similarities in climate and appearance of vegetation. Subsequently, settlers became successful in growing mediterranean crops, such as wheat, grapes, olives, citrus fruit, and figs, in each of the distant regions. The shared mediterranean climate pattern of the five areas is now associated with fine wines and excellent fruit. The native flora of each of these regions, however, is genetically distinctive. Nevertheless, plant species have remarkably many features in common as a result of having survived the challenges of a similar climate.
\"All five of the world?s mediterranean climate regions are concentrated within the latitudes of 30? and 45?, a little less than halfway from the equator to the poles (see map). The Mediterranean Basin and California are located in the northern hemisphere, while Central Chile, Western Cape Province of South Africa, and the states of Western and South Australia are located in the southern hemisphere. In the southern hemisphere, July is typically the coolest winter month and January the hottest summer month, the reverse of the seasons in the northern hemisphere.\"

Peter Dallman,
from his Introduction in
Plant Life in the Wolrd\'s Mediterranean Climates

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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:13 pm

Doobie:

This IS probably no \"big deal\" but I\'ve always just sort of wondered at what minimum winter\'s temperature does the climate of an area equate to tropical, subtropical or temperate, more than by latitude.

Obviously, certain plants like mangosteen, durian, and breadfruit must have hyper-tropical conditions. (I guess climates that grow these fruiting trees well would be USDA Zones 14?) As such, temperatures under 60 F. will hurt these ridiculously tender trees, but Key West is locally classified (USDA 11) as tropical, but the temperatures here approach 50 F. fairly regularly.

Other exceptional locality examples to the arbitrary \"tropical\" designation are Quito, Equador and Bogota, Columbia. They lie almost on the eqautor but at high elevations; they are fairly cool year around. That would seem to possibly make them barely even subtropical, but truly more correctly Equatorial Temperate.

We throw these climactic designatory words around so very loosely, that I thought one of our clones could offer a definitive designation as per temperature for purposes of maximizing planting successes.

Paul
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Postby epicure3 » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:25 pm

Mediterranean is also referred to as a dry summer subtropical climate so I just read.
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Postby Doobieous » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:30 pm

Mediterranean is also referred to as a dry summer subtropical climate so I just read.


Yes.

But you will not find anyone who\'s well versed in Mediterranean climates saying any of them are tropical.
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:04 pm

But I guess, Doobie, that they will call MOST of the Med climates subtropical. I think that the cut-off minimum winter temperatures is about 28 F. Maybe?)

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MOST PEOPLE LONG FOR ANOTHER ISLAND; ONE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY WOULD RATHER BE!"  "Bali H'ai" from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific" (1948)
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Postby Satur9 » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:22 pm

I\'ve often wondered the same thing, Paul. What would you consider a climate like Bermuda\'s? It\'s completely frost free. It\'s all time record low is 43.5F. Being well out in the Atlantic and directly in the warm Gulf Stream waters, it\'s well out of reach of North American cold fronts, but it\'s in the temperate zone at 32N. Fascinating climate if you ask me.

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Postby spectre » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:18 pm

Here we go again:

Doob, you will find no here even remotely equates Mediterranean climates with tropical. Period. End of story. We agree.

Now, once you get past the \"issuelessness\" of the issue for you, Mediterranean is a SUBtropical climate as several climate descriptions point out. We have a dry subtropical climate, with mild wet winters, and warm, dry summers. California and Arizona has SUBtropical deserts. No one in their right mind would call Yuma, Arizona tropical or Mediterranean either...the city is in a subtropical desert. The classical rule of thumb for subtropical climates are areas where citrus can be grown year-round...whether they are warm humid like Florida, or dry cool like California. Basically frost-free-to near frost free most of the year.

There have been several books I\'ve come across that have a classification called semitropical. These areas are usually warm-humid most of the year, with a few days to weeks of cooler temps that knock them out of the tropical zone. You usually know you\'re in one of these when you hear the common refrain, \"if it weren\'t for the two nights of frost we get a year, we\'d grow coconuts.\" Miami is not tropical...it can be called warm-humid subtropical, or semitropical. IMHO, if your temperatures drop below 50F/10C in any given average year routinely, you are not in a tropical climate. This is not to say that, technically, the high Andes or Mauna Kea aren\'t in the tropics...they are, but their climates are not.

Hawai\'i, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands are the only truly tropical locations under US jurisdiction.
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Postby epicure3 » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:40 pm

[size=]rack \'em up Spectre[/size]
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Postby Doobieous » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:40 pm

Here we go again:

Doob, you will find no here even remotely equates Mediterranean climates with tropical. Period. End of story. We agree.


Fair enough

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]Now, once you get past the \\\"issuelessness\\\" of the issue for you, Mediterranean is a SuBtropical climate as several climate descriptions point out. We have a dry subtropical climate, with mild wet winters, and warm, dry summers. [/quote]

You\'re preaching to the Choir, Sister.


[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]California and Arizona has SUBtropical deserts. No one in their right mind would call Yuma, Arizona tropical or Mediterranean either...the city is in a subtropical desert. The classical rule of thumb for subtropical climates are areas where citrus can be grown year-round...whether they are warm humid like Florida, or dry cool like California. Basically frost-free-to near frost free most of the year.[/quote]

the National Atlas describes coastal California as \"Humid Temperate\" domain, and in the Mediterranean Division. Further inland you get the \"Mediterranean Regime Mountains\", both of which which covers most of us here in California, myself included. The only subtropical region, at least according to that is within the desert areas once you get over the coastal mountains.

Definitions vary of course, as is apparent from what you\'ve written, and I\'m more inclined to agree with you on the Subtropical description, but in my mind, it\'s pretty clear that there are no tropical mediterranean areas, which is why I found that question irrelevant.

Degree of subtropicalness vs. temperateness is another kettle of fish, however.

If no one would think of a Mediterranean climate as having tropicality, well then, why did Palmdoctor ask this:

\"Is all this Mediterranean climate also solely Subtropical, or is there also a tropical Mediterranean climate, and a temperate Mediterranean climate, in CA? \"

(that\'s rhetorical, by the way, i do understand why he asked that)


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Postby happ » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:56 pm

USDA is merely the measurement of mimimum temperatures and it means that San Francisco/Los Angeles/San Diego join Miami and Honolulu as having 365 day growing seasons. The issue of what will thrive in a cool but frostless climate has been discussed before.

Mediterranean is certainly an approximate term to describe California, in general. I was raised in the Sacramento/San Joaquin valleys and well recall the extremely long hot summers; like a furnace. Winters are damp but not necessarily rainy in these agricultural belts. That\'s mediterranean to me. Spain/Italy/Greece have hot summers but cooler winters compared to SoCal. LA/San Diego are more like Triopoli/Casablanca. Northern Africa and South Africa. Even Perth/Brisbane are wetter than SoCal though have similar temps.

The Sonoran desert is considered a subtropical desert with a monsoon season. Death Valley has the hottest summer temperatures in the western hemisphere. Palm Springs/El Centro/Yuma are more like Cairo.

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Postby palmdoctor » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:08 am

I think, Spec, that your two aforementioned climactic characteristic determinant parameters make the most sense to me:

1. Subtropical is any place where citrus can be grown (which basically means that the absolute winter minimums stay above 28 F. for periods of 8 hours or longer, during a freeze \"event\", and cannot dip below 22 degrees F. more than 1-2 hours or you lose your crop and, importantly, maybe also your trees (depending upon variety).

2. Tropical climates are climates that absolute winter temperatures never dip below 50 F. Period! Miami\'s winter coldest average in the deepest part of winter is, I believe, 59 F. but I\'ll be damned if we aren\'t in the 55-45 F. range most nights from late Dec. to end of Feb. It doesn\'t even seem subtropical here a few (maybe 5-10) winter days, with highs at 60-65 and lows at 40-45 F.

I kinda like my own parameter of tropicalness too (but very personal, ignorant AND unscientific):

In a true tropical climate, you can feel comfortable without clothing (in an appropriate location, like your patio :oops: ) after the sun sets, and night \"cool\" starts.

Last night here was the first night in a while that it felt well, warm, at night, and the A/C ran all night. I haven\'t run the A/C all night in quite a while. Now I know that \"tropicalness\" is here, again!

I can sense the annoyance to my question by many clones (including the clone master!) I think that means that this question: 1. has been posed many times before, 2. no one cares about the issue and I\'m wasting everyone\'s time, 3. it shows my obvious ignorance about what\'s acceptable as a topic in this Forum and that I don\'t know the rules set forth. 4. all the above (my worst case of stupidity!)

If any of the above reasons apply, please, Spec, remove the question from the Posting roster (and I\'ll not Post a question until you approve it via Personal Message.)


I\'m sorry clones; I didn\'t mean to annoy anyone. I think that the problem is that most of you are so much more like scientists (and way more intelligent) than am I. By Doobie\'s response to my post, I think that he expressed very well that maybe this is not the right Forum venue for me. I\'m too uneducated to be part of this group. If you all agree let me know then I will not post anything, but just read \"takes\", until I become less ignorant in the ways of this Forum.

Unfortunately, I just enjoy plants for their beauty, and have a curiosity for many things. I don\'t have very much scientific insight. I think that I\'m an older version of Kylecawaza, maybe. My apologies again, clones! :oops:

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Postby abiu » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:42 am

Hi,

My 2 cents, regarding the tropical vs. subtropical debate.

A well accepted climate classification is the Koppen system:



In this system, tropical climates ( Af, Am, Aw) are those where the average minimum temperature is greater than 18C / 64F, year-round.

According to data found in weatherbase.com
Honolulu, in Hawaii, passes the test and is tropical.
Key West, FL also passes the test. Miami, does not!
(Apparently, breadfruit knows this!?)
Bermuda is not tropical but nearly so.

In subtropical climates ( Cfa, Cfb, Cs ), the coldest months has an average minimum temperature less than 18C/64F and above -3C/ 27F.

So, according to this system there is no doubt that most of either California or Florida are subtropical.

It is unfortunate that FL experiences those artic blast events that bring the averages down. Parts of southern FL, would probably qualify as tropical and the ever going FL vs. Ca discussion would be pointless.

The best example I have found of a tropical Mediterranean climate is found in some sheltered parts of the Canaries Islands (Tenerife & Gran Canaria). It is mediterranean because, unlike true tropical climates, rain comes in the winter (low sun) months. However, if the strict rules
of the Koppen system are applied then the Canaries fail the 18C/64F test.
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Postby Coralcoasttropicals » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:00 am

It is interesting to see how you class climates in the US and I think that the whole issue is up to open to differing interpretations. Here in Australia it is seen to be slightly different. In southern Australia where they have Mediterranean climates, they are classified as warm temperate (Sydney) and cool temperate (Melbourne & Hobart), Adelaide and Perth are classified as temperate.

The subtropics on the east coast start at Coffs Harbour which has a latitude of 30 degrees S. Queenslands capital city, Brisbane is on 27 degrees and is classified as humid subtropical.

Rockhampton sits smack bang on the tropic of Capricorn but because of geographical features it has cooler minimum temperatures than what we receive (100 miles further south) and is considered to be (like Bundaberg) to be in the warm humid subtropics.

Not until you pass to the north of Rockhampton do you enter what is considered to be the true tropics.
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Postby kit » Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:39 am

I haven\'t read the whole thread in detail so this may repeat. Someone, probably Spec, mentioned Semi-tropical - the correct designation. This only means that the weather is predominantly tropical in summer and temperate in winter. In Florida this is easy. We get winds from the south (Caribbean) mostly in summer and cold fronts from the north come through in winter.

The \"tropics\" include the areas between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn\" by definition. This does not mean there is a uniform climate just as Pennsylvania and Oregon have different climates though about the same latitude. These differences are due to prevaling wind direction - off shore or on-shore; off-shore currents; terrain, etc. Altitude bears a great deal on actual climate such as the northern Andes are in the Tropics - but the climate can be quite variable depending on above factors. High mountains anywhere in the world have alpine climates regardless of zone.

Subtropical (as opposed to semi-tropical) simply means any area outside the defined true tropics and temperate areas that have no or very few hours a year below freezing.
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Postby spectre » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:58 am

PalmDoctor:

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]I can sense the annoyance to my question by many clones (including the clone master!) I think that means that this question: 1. has been posed many times before, 2. no one cares about the issue and I\'m wasting everyone\'s time, 3. it shows my obvious ignorance about what\'s acceptable as a topic in this Forum and that I don\'t know the rules set forth. 4. all the above (my worst case of stupidity!)

If any of the above reasons apply, please, Spec, remove the question from the Posting roster (and I\'ll not Post a question until you approve it via Personal Message.)

I\'m sorry clones; I didn\'t mean to annoy anyone. I think that the problem is that most of you are so much more like scientists (and way more intelligent) than am I. By Doobie\'s response to my post, I think that he expressed very well that maybe this is not the right Forum venue for me. I\'m too uneducated to be part of this group. If you all agree let me know then I will not post anything, but just read \\\"takes\\\", until I become less ignorant in the ways of this Forum.

Unfortunately, I just enjoy plants for their beauty, and have a curiosity for many things. I don\'t have very much scientific insight. I think that I\'m an older version of Kylecawaza, maybe. My apologies again, clones![/quote]

Palm, you were doing all right until you wrote this stuff. What are you talking about? Stop apologizing for your questions and cut the crap. You haven\'t annoyed anybody (except Doob who is current seeking help for his Mediterranean addiction :wink:) and as you can see, definitions are human characterizations subject to vast interpretation depending on where you are. BTW, your contributions have been epic, so stop gripping.

For example, Australia has a very different way of categorizing climates...no one in the US (who knows Sydney\'s weather) would think that Sydney is Mediterranean. Perth and southwestern Australia are the only parts of that country that qualify according to our definitions.

Abiu brought up Koppen\'s system, which is the one I learned, which is why I have always thought of coastal Cali as subtropical and Flo-duh as semitropical. With Abiu\'s mention of the Grand Canaries, that may be a exception, but the water is still cold (like here) and they are prone to spring and summer fog...so if any Mediterranean climate qualifies as tropical based on temps alone, that would be it, but there\'s more to it than that.

As a matter of fact, though I didn\'t bring it up, my rule of thumb for a tropical climate (that I gave in my talk last Saturday) is anywhere breadfruit and nutmeg can grow unprotected.

What I\'ve noticed is that we\'re all a bunch of wannabees who gloat to say, \"nah-nah-nah, I\'m in Zone 10 and you\'re not\" or \"you can\'t even grow a coconut...you can\'t be subtropical...oh yeah, you can\'t grow a kentia, so there.\" There are different flavors and this reset brings out the opinions and facts and informs all of us.

There is no way you\'ve approached Kyle status (new Jungle gloss thanks to SciFi...\"mansquito\") with this blast...if you asked about growing a coconut in California, you would. You don\'t need any customs inspections on your questions...keep \'em coming and hold on to that vine!
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Postby Justin » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:07 am

There were one or two mentions of \"warm-temperate\" - man, that climate cannot be beat. Canaries, Madeira, upcountry Maui and the Big Island - totally bitching. Growing heliconias, proteas, coconuts, poincianas and Ceroxylons side by side. Makes me want to well up. :cry:
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Postby maspirasjr » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:34 am

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]man, that climate cannot be beat. Canaries, Madeira, upcountry Maui and the Big Island - totally bitching. Growing heliconias, proteas, coconuts, poincianas and Ceroxylons side by side. [/quote]

Oh, so true! Basically, any island in the path of the Atlantic gulf stream. Coconuts will not thrive in Madeira or the Azores, but they will in Bermuda, which has the same latitude as Charleston, SC.

In the South Pacific, there\'s New Caledonia and the Pitcairn islands, islands that straddle the subtropical/tropical divide. Coconuts will also thrive in the southernmost Japanese island chains (eg. Kagoshima) and the Ryukyus.

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Postby maspirasjr » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:36 am

....and I couldn\'t agree more with Spec, your posts are epic, Paul (palmdoctor) !

Keep them coming.

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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby happ » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:48 am

Paul the penitent. :-({|=

I tell my meteorology nerd/friends to check out garden sites for well educated gardeners who are in sync with mother earth. Your question is a \"natural\" for discussion on this board.

Spectre\'s distinction is quite informed and readily accepted by tropical gardeners.

Its especially interesting to see photos of our gardens. Looking at Ariscott\'s photos of his lush garden [post/pre Ingrid] in the Northern Territory reminded me how spectacularly akin our gardens tastes are.

Paul, tell us more about your recent trip to Panama. I\'m especially interested in the storm you mentioned. Was it a tropical disturbance or a tropical depression/fetch like me experienced in California this winter?

happ
Totally by accident and coinciding with renewed gardening interest, I discovered I live in California\'s most tropical zone [USDA 11]. Now I push the envelope of climatic tolerance.
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:17 am

Thank you, Greg & Marcelo!

I cannot tell, sometimes, by some members\' responses to my posts, if they feel I am too simplistic for their tastes. By my own admission, I think that maybe I can be, but I really only want to learn more...every day. The great human cerebral resources assembled here are EPIC, too!

The plant world makes me so happy; it always has. Coming from a home where my father beat up my mother with fists and words for 48 1/2 years, (a Catholic family\'s secrets, you know!), I only had one dependable way to keep enjoying life and that way was through discovering the beauty and \"miracle\" of plants.

The tropical plants that I amassed over the years, in my bedroom, kept a barrier between me and the discord and ugliness in my very unloving home. I identified well, guys, with the Simon & Garfunkle song: \"I am a rock; I am an island...And a rock feels no pain; and an island never cries!\" My ever-expanding collection of gardening and plant I.D. books were/are my strength and provide an unending sense for the wonderment that IS nature itself.

I dreamed of the tropics since I was six or so, and even now, the romance & exotic nature of the tropics and its wondrous plants make me so very alive inside!

Thanks, guys, for understanding the fragility, kindness and gentleness in my spirit. I love being in \"The Jungle!\" The Vine is STILL between my hands, Spec. :wink:

Fondly,

Paul
"MOST PEOPLE LIVE ON A LONELY ISLAND...LOST IN THE MIDDLE OF A FOGGY SEA.
MOST PEOPLE LONG FOR ANOTHER ISLAND; ONE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY WOULD RATHER BE!"  "Bali H'ai" from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific" (1948)
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palmdoctor
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Climate: Humid Subtropical
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:49 pm

Thanks for all the clarifying climatological terminology assistance, fellow clones.

Now I know the various differences in semi-tropical, tropical, temperate and Mediterranean!

I appreciate your time & understanding!

Paul
"MOST PEOPLE LIVE ON A LONELY ISLAND...LOST IN THE MIDDLE OF A FOGGY SEA.
MOST PEOPLE LONG FOR ANOTHER ISLAND; ONE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY WOULD RATHER BE!"  "Bali H'ai" from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific" (1948)
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:42 am

Ahhhh! It looks as though the more \"tropical\" portion of South Florida\'s year is just about ready to \"kick in!\" I know, this is the part of the year that makes MANY Southern Californians \"wince!\"

On the weather \"menu\" is: three days over 90 F.; four days in the 85-90 F. range and seven nights over 70 F. (Sounds forminable, \"no\", Happ?)

I guess, one either loves it, or eschews it! I am in the former heat lovin\' group, I reckon.

I\'m an avowed U.S. Easterner. Summer has always been, for me, heat & humidity....And I really DO enjoy it, as do my tropical plants!

We\'ll BOTH commence to growin\' rapidly now (through October!!)

Cheers!

Paul
"MOST PEOPLE LIVE ON A LONELY ISLAND...LOST IN THE MIDDLE OF A FOGGY SEA.
MOST PEOPLE LONG FOR ANOTHER ISLAND; ONE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY WOULD RATHER BE!"  "Bali H'ai" from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific" (1948)
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby happ » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:20 pm

Hey I\'m with you, bro :mrgreen: And agree that the \"real\" gardener does not yeild to weather conditions. I spent several years as a young man living in Philly/NYC/Chicago. The first warm weather front of humid moisture and I found myself running in the rain. Throw in a thunderstorm and I was stoked :weedman:

Coralcoasttropicals
Thanks for the climate/latitude info on Brisbane. Sydney/Newcastle are similar to SoCal.
Totally by accident and coinciding with renewed gardening interest, I discovered I live in California\'s most tropical zone [USDA 11]. Now I push the envelope of climatic tolerance.
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Tropical vs. Subtropical

Postby palmdoctor » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:11 pm

Happ: All climates are full of wonder (and enjoyment) for people like us! I love Cali when I\'m there; I love Puerto Rico when I\'m there, etc., etc., etc. Ditto Panama! Not so ditto for Montreal in January, though!

Take care, happ, and keep your \"weather eye\" ever watchful!!

Paul
"MOST PEOPLE LIVE ON A LONELY ISLAND...LOST IN THE MIDDLE OF A FOGGY SEA.
MOST PEOPLE LONG FOR ANOTHER ISLAND; ONE WHERE THEY KNOW THEY WOULD RATHER BE!"  "Bali H'ai" from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific" (1948)
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Climate: Humid Subtropical
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